iphone sucks and its too overrated. nokia should strengthen their market in the US. there use to b a small store in texas, but its gone :[
Desi
· 2 years ago
AMEN!!!!
Znox
· 2 years ago
the hype about the iphone is about th e apple design. about the fact that it has a touchscreen. and no keys. that what it is all about. people are not concerning about the many functions. at least not the ones how want a iphone. n91vs iphone. well i think there is no comparation. but i thing that people just wanna have and mp3player in a phone. and since they all love the iphone, they also want a iphone. they dont realy care about a 2mp cam. about video recording or stuff. the iphone looks good. probably better then the ugly n93 and the n91. at least there are only a few devices with touchscreen. i mean withtout keys. like the lgk850 prada phone. so its a new market open. nokia aero is no more a vision. is reality as we already see. so the best was to combat the marketshare in the devices like prada and iphone, is to do the same. no question about that the iphone is a normal device. there is nothing that we havnt seen. but the buyers buy it because they are apple fans, because it looks good, and because they want and iphone, but with the ability to call. They dont even care if the screen will scretch as hell. Dont know the situation over there in the us, but fact is that nokia hasnt bring out realy stylish candybars sliders and shells... with the new n95 nokia is comming out again. and with the n81 also.
thats all have to say... peace and out
John
· 2 years ago
All the major cities in the US should have a flagship store. And definately don't let ATT bully you. Americans need to be weaned off of these cheap subsidized phones. Most people don't even know the N73,N76 or N95 even exists.
Znox
· 2 years ago
few mistakes ...grama and stuff in my text up there sorry for that im to sleepy good night xD
kaplanfx
· 2 years ago
Ricky, you are also forgetting the ridiculously high resolution screen on the iPhone. This certainly makes the "real" Internet experience better (and can we stop referring to the web and the Internet synonymously?). I'm going to guess this also makes google maps and html email quite a bit nicer to use. I agree though about the phone only being evolutionary.
IMHO the best features of the device are the high res screen and the audio/video player (which I haven't used but it looks far, far superior to current offerings). Now I currently carry a cellphone and an iPod with me to work, if this device could eliminate carrying two devices I'd be in love, but it can't. I don't want to give up the amazing camera on my phone (N73) nor the ability to sync with outlook and lotus notes (used in most corporate environments) nor my ability to install 3rd party apps (I love my Shozu, gsync, y-browser, mobireader, games, etc...). So yeah I think you missed some of the great features in your little iPhone rant, but you still hit the key point.
-kap
elfguy
· 2 years ago
I compare the iPhone to the RAZR. They are both sub-par technologically, but they both bring a sleek visual design, and they both were marketed heavily, and that's what sell things in North America.
Viipottaja
· 2 years ago
With all due respect, I do think the iPhone is bordering revolutionary with its UI for phones in general and for Touch Screen devices for sure. It is a mistake to just stare at technical specs that most phone owners don't have now anyway, and don't know are available in the N91.
It matters little that the specs are similar to the N91. What matters much much more is that the UI APPEARS (have not used, don't know for sure) very intuitive and something that a complete non-technical person can just pick up and use after a couple of minutes. That just is NOT the case with S60 (as much I absolutely love S60). Just look at the TV add and tell me that the iPhone picture gallery browsing is not intuitive and freaking cool looking. Honestly. Yes. Exactly. It is. It _looks_ freaking cool. Whether it actually works that well when you have 300 pics there, I am not sure. But again, that's not really the point.
The mistake Jobbs made was to talk about it as a smartphone. It's not a smartphone as we all know, and he should never have made that mistake. Even him having said "this is what computers have become, a true multimedia computer" would have been more accurate. But that too would of course have pissed us all off.. ;-)
Eric (aka heybige@HoFo)
· 2 years ago
One thing that needs to be considered is that the iPhone is not coming from a relative "unknown" manufacturer in the US. While the iPod may not be the best music player, it's certainly the best known and most used.
Apple as a whole has a huge foot in the tech/gadget segment. I don't think it's fair to call Nokia out when Apple already has a strangle hold on consumer perception. And in terms of consumer perception, Apple is THE cool brand. At this point, no MMS or not, the iPhone could come with Herpes and people would still line up to buy it.
But I do agree that Nokia should be called out on their business decisions in the US. They could absolutely a bigger and better presence in the US. But one great advertising campaign won't give it the history Apple already has in consumer faith.
As far as making a big blast in the US, Nokia missed this boat a long time ago. Is it too late for them? Time will tell. But recent signs aren't promising. First they were slow in catching on to the clamshell craze that enveloped the US. More recently, their stubborness to develop touchscreen components, which they say they have but choose not to pursue despite the hype surrounding the iPhone and HTC Touch, is not surprising. Just sad.
greenteeth
· 2 years ago
The only thing that I find unique and revolutionary on the iphone is the way it handles voicemails. Selecting whichever one you want from a menu is absolutely a godsend for me as I get tons of vmails all day.
Viipottaja
· 2 years ago
Greenteeth, true, and I think there certainly are some other unique aspects in the UI, not seen in any serious consumer product in the market - e.g. the zooming in an out with two fingers.
Ricky Cadden
· 2 years ago
Wow! It's awesome to see such great feedback. I want to make something clear, though. I have nothing against the iPhone. I only used it for this article to point out the lack of marketing that Nokia does in the US. I could have used the RAZR 5 years ago to make the same case.
However, I realize that there are things that the iPhone does that might seem amazing, but they're nothing that's not been done before. Perhaps before they weren't done as simply, but they were still done.
Personally, I get a bit upset everytime I see the iPhone ads on TV,specifically the web one. Where are the Nokia commercials showing the Mini-map browser? Where is the one showing off the eye-candy of Widsets? This is what this entire post is about really.
Rita Khoury
· 2 years ago
Ricky, Steve Jobs announced monday that the iPhone will support 3rd party apps via leopard (i think, not familiar with the apple tech jargon).
And as far as marketing goes, maybe Nokia is missing a lot in the USA, but my guess is they are also missing a lot in the other markets as well, the RAZR came out of nowhere here in Lebanon, although it offers NOTHING like the symbian platform, nothing, and its cam sucks. The iPhone will come off strong too, I predict, and so will the Samsung UPStage. The average Joe doesn't know about applications and the options that the symbian platform offers, the average Joe and the average Mary look for Cool, Kyout (cute), Easy and Trendy. That's what Nokia is failing to show (of course the N95 was Cool, but it was never Kyout, Easy or Trendy). The other manufacturers are building on these CKET factors, and they are successfull. I had prepared yesterday a post about what Nokia's promotion and marketing strategies should be like, I think I'll put it online in a couple of hours/days :D
photonpoet
· 2 years ago
The iPhone has at least three revolutionary features: Interface Interface Interface
James @ The Creative Life
· 2 years ago
Wow! Check out the amount of comments Ricky!!
I read your post and I understand where you are coming from, but it still made me feel slightly uneasy for you . . .
The iPhone is all about refinement - just like the iPod before it, and to a lesser extent Mac OSX, it's been distilled and refined even before launch. When Nokia release each new hyped phone, nearly all the features have some level of clunkiness about them. It's as if nobody could be quite bothered enough to finish things of properly, as if someone at Nokia just said, "Oh well, it's not perfect, but hey, there's always the next N Series phone to play with!" It's exactly the same attitude that all the other phone makers have, and it's the same attitude that Microsoft have.
Take the camera in the N95, I love it, but it's still not quite good enough. The same applies for video capture. And what about all these games that we were promised that would use the 3D engine of the N95?
Nokia have made some amazing phones and their methods have indeed worked very well so far, which is why they are still the number one phone manufacturer in the world. But times are changing, and so must Nokia.
Hey, it looks like I totally agree with you! (^_^)
Never underestimate how much people get excited by refinement, by using things that just work.
Peter
· 2 years ago
"The iPhone has at least three revolutionary features: Interface Interface Interface"
I AGREE 100% - that's what people need to understand - the "revolution" from the iPhone is not about specs (it doesn't come close to my N95 in that respect) but the UI. Try switching to the Gallery on your S60 phone - what do you get, screen partly redrawn, some black some white, then the gallery finally appears - the same with other stuff (Nokia is trying to make it nicer with the multimedia menu of the N95)
From the demos of the iPhone it seems the interface will be much more "smooth".
I know this is all eye-candy, but eye-candy sells and improves the perception of the user experience - THAT is what is special about the iPhone, not much else (which is why I got the N95!!! - also the iphone won't be available here in Europa until the end of this year :-) ).
I stopped reading after "However, the features and capabilities are NOTHING NEW. If you can't agree with that, then stop reading here."... ;)
No, I agree with some of what you said and disagree with other points. My main point of contention is, "There is *NOTHING* revolutionary about the iPhone. At best, it's evolutionary, and only because of the touch interface."
I would argue that REVOLUTION is born of EVOLUTION and that the iPhone is without a doubt a revolutionary device. Why? Certainly not due to any features, apps, or functionality. The fact is that the iPhone's design and UI are amazing and they will be 100% responsible for *over time* changing what we see on and in mobile devices.
Jan Struyf
· 2 years ago
Interface, interface, interface: The reason that Nokia became the number one GSM manufacture, was the because of 3 reasons 1) way better user-interface then the competition 2) better look. 3) Reliability.
I'm a big Nokia fan but after 6310, I don't see any improvements in the Nokia phones. They are getting smarter but the extra functions are working mostly very clumsy. I currently have a E61, web surfing is almost useless. email interface not really easy to use. If you look up a tel. number from somebody, the tel. fonts are so small, you hardly can read it. Go to you calendar during a phone call, is just very difficult, etc. It seems like, the smarter the phone, the smarter you need to become to use it. -What I have seen from the iPhone is just the opposite, each function implemented works brilliant and seems a no brainer to use. -It looks fantastic. -Is hopeful reliable (future will tell).
With my Nokia E61, I'm disappointed that it doesn't get the necessary firmware upgrade for all the bugs it has inside, instead they provide an improved E61i. Even when it does provide this update, I'm not sure how to do this (it will take a couple of forum visits to find out were to find it and how to do it).
I hope because of the iPhone competition, I hope Nokia will rethink there strategies because apple promises a 2 year free software upgrade policy.
I think I will become a Apple fan instead.
Kamiboy
· 2 years ago
No there is nothing revolutionary about the hardware of the iPhone. Just like any other reality illiterate nerd that is the only thing you are looking at.
What makes the iPhone untouchable by other manufacturers not the hardware but the awesome software. Software that like the OSX puts the market leader M$'s to shame on laptops and stationeries puts S60 and WM to shame on phones.
The S60 platform might be "powerful" but what good does that do users when they actually use the phone and are presented with ugly, sluggish, buggy and unintuitive GUI and software on the phone?
Geeks might be impervious to bad UI design and general aesthetics but tech geeks are in a breed of their own. When they look at the iPhone and cannot see what differentiates it from other phones it speaks only of their ineptitude to see things as ordinary people do.
No, the iPhone does not have this hardware feature and that, but that is not what ordinary people care about. Ordinary people don't install all kinds of extra apps and stuff on their phones either, they don't care to.
They want a easy to use phone that just works out of the box and has everything you need. A phone that god forbid has a OS/GUI/software that is not designed by chimps and riddled with bugs because the manufacturer didn't care to test properly because he is too busy squeezing a dozen other phones out that quarter.
Ricky Cadden
· 2 years ago
Guys, I'm not arguing against the iPhone. Perhaps I did put down the ease of use a bit, but that's not the point.
The point that I'm trying to make (and failing miserably, I believe) is that the iPhone really has all this buzz because of marketing. And when I say marketing, I'm not talking about online banner ads and internet contests that "illiterate nerds" like myself (apparently) would participate in.
I'm talking about traditional media. Perhaps I'm a bit jaded, but "normal" people aren't nearly as affected by online media as they are by seeing the iPhone ads on TV that show how simple it is to do things. You all point out it's the interface, yes, but even before that is the marketing that SHOWED the interface to you. And THAT'S where Nokia, in my opinion, has missed the ball.
JC
· 2 years ago
Ricky, I think you're missing why the iPhone is kinda revolutionary...
I'll admit that a lot of what the phone does has been done before. And I certainly won't buy one. But it completely forgoes the traditional keyboard, which is brave. It may backfire on them, but it's brave. Lopping off the keyboard gives Apple a lot of extra space for a screen, which in turn allows for a higher resolution.
Go ahead and compare the mini-map feature of the S60 browser to the iPhone. Show that to the average person on the street, and they'll snigger at the mini-map, unless they're trying really hard to be polite.
What Nokia needs to do is take a chance. Deliver something revolutionary, not evolutionary. Fix the problems in S60 that users have been complaining about since forever. And when they do, for f's sake, put a decent battery in the thing.
And, in my opinion, the way to attack Apple is not from the high end... Apple will own that market. The N95 and it's ilk are going to be doomed by the iPhone, not because of any technical superiority, but because Apple owns that market segment. Nokia should do for smartphones what SanDisk did with MP3 players... attack the low end and move up. Own that low and middle end market, and the high end market will come along. Because, at least in the US, Nokia is starting from essentially zero.
Ricky Cadden
· 2 years ago
@JC - I agree that Nokia has some fundamental things that need to be addressed in S60.
However, I don't think that the iPhone and S60 are truly competitors, and I think that everyone who has commented thinks that I do. I have nothing against the iPhone. I merely compared it to the N91 above for the purpose of showing that MOSTLY, the devices are similar, in terms of features. Yes, the interface is different, but that's not going to appeal to everyone. I know several people who have absolutely zero desire for a touchscreen anything. Personally? I'd buy one just to play for a week or two.
The overall point I was attempting to make is that the iPhone opens up markets that Nokia and others have drooled over for years, but couldnt' seem to figure out how to get to them. The interface isn't even really relevant to this post. This post is saying, look, you have 2 devices that are incredibly similar in function, and form is in the eye of the beholder. So then what's the difference in the N91, or any S60 device in the US, and the iPhone?
I don't think Nokia or anyone else should try to compete with the iPhone, and I don't think they do. What I DO think (and know) is that there are people out there who like the IDEA of the iPhone, a device that has a full web browser and Google Maps and all, but they may hate Apples, and they may be totally turned off from a touch interface. THAT'S the market that Nokia and other high-end manufacturers are TOTALLY missing with the lack of marketing.
I don't think the iPhone is for everyone, and neither does Steve Jobs. That's why he only wants to sell a million. And that's why he setup an exclusive deal with ONE carrier out of 4. The point is, there are things that the iPhone does that appeal to people, but that UI and touch don't appeal to. All I'm saying is that this was a perfect opportunity for Nokia to say, "Look, we're here too. If you like the idea of browsing full web pages and using Google Maps easily and syncing your music and all these fun things, but want more than a 2MP cam, or want something smaller, or want a physical keypad, we've got something for you!" Currently, they're not saying ANYTHING. They're just pushing their 2610 and 6102i's into the bottom rung of Cingular's lineup and whispering, "Oh, yeah, freebies? We've got some, if you like them..."
THAT'S what I'm saying.
John
· 2 years ago
I personally don't like touch screens. Also, I need to be able to view excel files on my phone. So the iphone is a no go for me. I think the N82 will be awesome if Nokia puts enough ram in it.
JC
· 2 years ago
Ricky -- Yes, you're right... you *can* browse Google Maps and use a full web browser on a S60 phone, but the experience is lacking. There's no getting around that... and I think that's one of the reasons the N800 exists.
The bigger the screen, the higher the resolution, the better the browsing experience. The 320x240 screens that most S60 devices have aren't going to compete in that regard. Even the prehistoric (in terms of hardware/software) Treos have an arguably better browsing experience just because the form factor lends itself to it.
Ricky Cadden
· 2 years ago
JC - I don't think you can make assertions as to the "experience" until it's been documented. All I'm saying is that no one can really say "browsing on the iPhone IS better than browsing on an S60 device" cause no one has done both extensively.
You mention browsing on the N800. To a degree, it's a bit more comfortable on the N800, but owning one, I can tell you that the touch interface, including the keyboard, quickly gets to the point where for certain tasks, I'd much prefer my N95 simply for the tactile buttons.
Also, the browser can have ALOT to do with your browsing experience, and let's not be too quick to forget that the iPhone's browser is based ALOT on the same thing that the S60 browser is.
JC
· 2 years ago
Ricky -- I'm not talking about 'experience' in terms of interacting with the UI. But assuming the UI is half decent, would you rather browse in 320x240 or 480x320 (iPhone)?
I know the S60 browser and iPhone browser are derived from the KHTML toolkit (at least I'll credit the KDE guys, nobody else seems to). I also have a feeling that the iPhone won't skimp on usable RAM, and you probably won't see the iPhone browser close down due to 'out of memory' errors. This is a long standing Nokia weakness, and there's really no way to argue that or excuse it.
Ricky Cadden
· 2 years ago
JC - Would I rather *browse* with 320*240 or 480*320, or would I rather carry around in my pocket all day? Frankly, while the N800's screen is nice, I don't carry it around with me all the time. Again, this is something that's going to be personal preference, and some will love, some won't. Again going back to my point that Nokia's missing a niche here that's not going to be served entirely by the iPhone. The iPhone has created 2 niche markets, one who desires everything the iPhone offers (both hardware and in user experience) and one who desires ALOT of what the iPhone offers, but that isn't satisfied with one or several aspects of the iPhone. Nokia should be targeting the latter.
I agree with you 100% on the RAM on S60, you simply can't argue that. As I said above, there's some fundamental things that S60 and Nokia needs to improve upon, including RAM.
Ken Camp
· 2 years ago
The iPhone is a revolutionary disruption to be sure. It disrupted the iPod market and put every potential buyer of a high-end iPod on hold. Apple disrupted their own revenue chain. The iPhone is an interesting new twist on the iPod and by the way, it can make phone calls if you agree to lock in to a two year contract with a single carrier.
The iPhone isn't disruptive to the telecom industry on the whole. It isn't even a blip on the industry's radar. It's a marginal sidetrack for mobile handset providers. And while the interface is slick and will re-energize interest in PDAs, which have touch screens, as opposed to smartphones that don't. It will fill a niche and it will lead to some new evolutionary re-introductions of things like touch screens. Then again, my N800, paired with damn near any bluetooth phone has a touch screen.
Evolutionary. Mildly interesting, but ephemeral and not revolutionary in any way. I've said that since the day it was introduced. I won't be queeuing up to get another device to clutter the desk drawer two months after I bought it.
I'm sure it will do well. Then I expect some backlash. Just doesn't impress me a whole lot.
JC
· 2 years ago
Ricky -- Can you really carry a N91 or N95 in your pocket all day? I'd think it would become very uncomfortable after a while.
pjk
· 2 years ago
I also see faults with the iPhone. Just as I see faults with Nokia devices. (N800, WTF?!?!)
However, I am going to be one of those folks who will try to buy an iPhone on day 1. Why? Well, aside from working for a mobile developer, I have a need for a single device that does the things that the iPhone does, and does it with style. Will the iPhone meet that requirement? Time will tell.
That said, I think the N95 would be the perfect device with a larger screen, qwerty keyboard and a real browser. I'm expecting great things from Apple's Safari hype. If it does not deliver, then there is stilla wide open playing field for a robust mobile browser.
Finally, I would close with the fact that I received not one but TWO unrelated calls from within a large handset manufacturer the day iPhone was revealed - both saying "oh, shit."
Overhyped? Probably. Good for the industry? No question. Look at all the innovative stuff that's come out, or been announced in the past six months since the iPhone debut. I welcome Apple to the market. They will take their lumps just like everyone else, but there is no doubt in my mind that they will put some fire under the butts of those who think mobile operating systems are just fine the way they are.
JonnyBruha
· 2 years ago
Are you surprised that you received such responses, Ricky? Anything posted on the internet that could possibly be perceived as a downfall of the iPhone immediately gets shot down by Apple fanboys, those who have never seen a phone without branding on it, and people who think the iPhone is the coolest thing since the RAZR.
Rita Khoury
· 2 years ago
PEOPLE the guy is talking about MARKETING strategies, nothing about the interface, nothing about the touchscreen and the keyboard lack... AH! Do every single post on the internet that has "iPhone" in it have to turn into a battlefield between the iPhone haters and the iPhone adopters? The device isn't already sold, have it in ur hands and then argue! We all know it will be great at what it does, because Apple always makes great products, we all know many people will buy it, we all know it may not come in as feature-packed as our symbian phones but will still be nice to hold, and we all know you're gonna have to spend 200$ worth of accessories to get it together, because you don't want it scratched, you don't want it to drop in the car, you want an FM transmitter, etc etc etc... POINT. This iPhone hype is turning into a world war III and that is, in one way what Ricky is trying to point out here. Look what Apple did with this product, look at the marketing, look how we are all here arguing about the device even before its official launch, look at this. Do Nokia devices cause such a rush, such a public awareness, such contradictions? because contradictions ARE the reason of this iPhone hype, and Apple is rejoicing. Good for them. They are doing a great job. Now, let's wait for other companies to pick up these smart strategies and follow!
Znox
· 2 years ago
About Marketing... No question.. Apple made it good. But they only have a single device... Only one Phone. Nokia owned 2002 the biggest market share. 35%. Now they got about 32% still double as the secound biggest contender motorola for 16% 17%. We know the amount of phones they have, an for sure they cant do marketing for everyone, in the size of a Iphone marketing. The Ipod has a market share of 82% among hard drive-based portable music players. So the name is well known among poeple... And theys marketing strategy was once again awesome. Because of the stylich player. The Iphone will upgrade the owners of a normal Ipod and Ipod nano. Because peaople that have a Ipod, don't care much if they Phone has an mp3 player or not. But know they have an Ipod with the Phone ability.. so let hit it... And once again Apples interface is well known to be simple. AND the Iphone show us a styisch device with not keys at all, and this cool touchscreen functions such functions as zooming with to fingers. Nokia can't focus in making a outstanding publicity for just every device they have. It would cost to much. The Iphone so has the N95 were hyped by the media. Apple dind't do that much... press conference...and media just jumped over it.... Just a statagie such as a marketing os a PS3 or a Xbox360
john
· 2 years ago
Ricky buddy, I can't believe you fell into the Iphone trap. People who critique a phone before it comes out are just plain crazy. I'm no Apple fanboy, nor will I get an Iphone unless someone's giving it away, but why not wait until it comes out to knock it?
I think you're message is falling on deaf ears as well. I'm not sure who you are trying to convince here? Most of the people who buy this device will be Apple fanboys or people with deep pockets who will probably own an N95 as well.
Ricky Cadden
· 2 years ago
JC - absolutely. I use the N95 as my only phone, and carry it around with me all day with no problems.
John - the iPhone trap? This article has nothing to do with the iPhone. Reread it.
Alvin
· 2 years ago
The iphone is a cheap spinoff of the ipod thats it. Nothing new except the touchscreen user interface. Thats it.
In terms of the features besides that, everything else is not new.
N95 vs Iphone , no contest n95 wins outright.
Electro-Spyder
· 2 years ago
Well, I think what you, Rick, have stated above makes perfect sense. It was never about the device in the first place. It was about how Apple was able to make iPhone look like a gift from the gods of Olympus. That this phone, a device, will singlehandedly deliver what everyone's been searching for their entire life, and Jobs had their attention from the day one. iPhone! A phone made by the same company who brought you iPod, iTunes, iMac, iCarrumba... and possibly iRobot, but that can be disputed... Apple as a company understands marketing. Most importantly, they know their target market. It is the swarm of ordinary people who doesn't know S60 from Volvo S60, and doesn't care to find out either. It is the people who just wants a latest fashionable cellphone they can carry, and perhaps catch the glance of other's, detecting faint trace of envy that will glorify their existence on this earth as demi-gods. It is this market that Jobs understand and caters to, exclusively. So who cares that some techno-savvy geeks knows the secret of the iPhone, and wants the world to know about it? World doesn't want to know. It never did. But then most of the cellphone companies don't, either. Marketing of cellphones in places like Japan and S.Korea, and in large part of non-North American world, has been refined to the point, that it is it's own industry now. They research market, track their target demographic, search for that new market segment that will bring them new money. When they gauge the market, and receive feeback, they act on it. Fast. It is this marketing strategy that fuels continued existence of cellphone industry, as exciting and forward-thinking place. Where is this enthusiasm, if only feigned, with Nokia? Or Sony Ericsson? How many times do I see Nokia TV commercial, right after the reruns of Friends? Have I ever seen new and exciting N95, or SE K810i, on TV? No. And if it wasn't for that courageous Chinese businessman who had the adacity to sell unlocked phones in my area, I would never have known about them either. Perhaps cellphone industry is still being propelled by that old standard, 'word of mouth' advertising. Well, people tire of talk, and 'show and tell,' and in most part just 'show,' is the only way to get your idea across these days. You don't show them, they don't know you. Or you product.
But who knows? Maybe iPhone will get tanked, and everything will get sucked into an iBlackhole, and the world as we know it, will cease to exist. Then we'll just have to use our N95 to call our friends and tell them all about it.
mst0192
· 2 years ago
it's all about the interface...
Electro-Spyder
· 2 years ago
Actually, it has nothing to do with interface, when it comes to mobile phone market. Did people buy all those V3 for interface? No. Majority of people who buy mobile device don't, and will never, care about interface. They don't even know what it is. They just want phone that works and look good. Of course, with people like us, who knows and seeks device for our personal interest, that is entirely different. But, most of the time, the larger share of mobile device market has nothing to do with how the phone works. It's all about the look and the hype. That's why the iPhone will dominate the market. Pure and simple.
Jennifer
· 2 years ago
Hear Hear! I have been a loyal Nokia user for years because of excellent customer service and phones that, until the iPhone, were the most user-friendly and reliable around (disputable...but definitely better than Motorola). The n92 is COOL. Prior to the release of the iPhone, it was the coolest product available...if Nokia had hyped the n92 in advance of the iPhone release, they could have really stolen some of the iPhone's thunder...particularly in the rather strong CDMA US-base (Verizon is the largest carrier) who are locked out of the iPhone due to the exclusive deal with AT&T.
You make a great point...what ARE their marketing people doing? I was desperate for a Nokia clamshell several years ago but none were available.
The iPhone doesn't do it for me because I want to be able to open documents and use Sprint's faster network connection...but now, having seen the iPhone interface and touch-screen technology, I can't settle for the N95 either. I guess I'll just wait for the next generation...which I'm sure we Americans will have to diligently search online to discover, as no ad campaign is forthcoming.
All Comments
Dont know the situation over there in the us, but fact is that nokia hasnt bring out realy stylish candybars sliders and shells... with the new n95 nokia is comming out again. and with the n81 also.
thats all have to say... peace and out
IMHO the best features of the device are the high res screen and the audio/video player (which I haven't used but it looks far, far superior to current offerings). Now I currently carry a cellphone and an iPod with me to work, if this device could eliminate carrying two devices I'd be in love, but it can't. I don't want to give up the amazing camera on my phone (N73) nor the ability to sync with outlook and lotus notes (used in most corporate environments) nor my ability to install 3rd party apps (I love my Shozu, gsync, y-browser, mobireader, games, etc...). So yeah I think you missed some of the great features in your little iPhone rant, but you still hit the key point.
-kap
It matters little that the specs are similar to the N91. What matters much much more is that the UI APPEARS (have not used, don't know for sure) very intuitive and something that a complete non-technical person can just pick up and use after a couple of minutes. That just is NOT the case with S60 (as much I absolutely love S60). Just look at the TV add and tell me that the iPhone picture gallery browsing is not intuitive and freaking cool looking. Honestly. Yes. Exactly. It is. It _looks_ freaking cool. Whether it actually works that well when you have 300 pics there, I am not sure. But again, that's not really the point.
The mistake Jobbs made was to talk about it as a smartphone. It's not a smartphone as we all know, and he should never have made that mistake. Even him having said "this is what computers have become, a true multimedia computer" would have been more accurate. But that too would of course have pissed us all off.. ;-)
Apple as a whole has a huge foot in the tech/gadget segment. I don't think it's fair to call Nokia out when Apple already has a strangle hold on consumer perception. And in terms of consumer perception, Apple is THE cool brand. At this point, no MMS or not, the iPhone could come with Herpes and people would still line up to buy it.
But I do agree that Nokia should be called out on their business decisions in the US. They could absolutely a bigger and better presence in the US. But one great advertising campaign won't give it the history Apple already has in consumer faith.
As far as making a big blast in the US, Nokia missed this boat a long time ago. Is it too late for them? Time will tell. But recent signs aren't promising. First they were slow in catching on to the clamshell craze that enveloped the US. More recently, their stubborness to develop touchscreen components, which they say they have but choose not to pursue despite the hype surrounding the iPhone and HTC Touch, is not surprising. Just sad.
However, I realize that there are things that the iPhone does that might seem amazing, but they're nothing that's not been done before. Perhaps before they weren't done as simply, but they were still done.
Personally, I get a bit upset everytime I see the iPhone ads on TV,specifically the web one. Where are the Nokia commercials showing the Mini-map browser? Where is the one showing off the eye-candy of Widsets? This is what this entire post is about really.
And as far as marketing goes, maybe Nokia is missing a lot in the USA, but my guess is they are also missing a lot in the other markets as well, the RAZR came out of nowhere here in Lebanon, although it offers NOTHING like the symbian platform, nothing, and its cam sucks. The iPhone will come off strong too, I predict, and so will the Samsung UPStage.
The average Joe doesn't know about applications and the options that the symbian platform offers, the average Joe and the average Mary look for Cool, Kyout (cute), Easy and Trendy. That's what Nokia is failing to show (of course the N95 was Cool, but it was never Kyout, Easy or Trendy). The other manufacturers are building on these CKET factors, and they are successfull.
I had prepared yesterday a post about what Nokia's promotion and marketing strategies should be like, I think I'll put it online in a couple of hours/days :D
Interface
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I read your post and I understand where you are coming from, but it still made me feel slightly uneasy for you . . .
The iPhone is all about refinement - just like the iPod before it, and to a lesser extent Mac OSX, it's been distilled and refined even before launch. When Nokia release each new hyped phone, nearly all the features have some level of clunkiness about them. It's as if nobody could be quite bothered enough to finish things of properly, as if someone at Nokia just said, "Oh well, it's not perfect, but hey, there's always the next N Series phone to play with!" It's exactly the same attitude that all the other phone makers have, and it's the same attitude that Microsoft have.
Take the camera in the N95, I love it, but it's still not quite good enough. The same applies for video capture. And what about all these games that we were promised that would use the 3D engine of the N95?
Nokia have made some amazing phones and their methods have indeed worked very well so far, which is why they are still the number one phone manufacturer in the world. But times are changing, and so must Nokia.
Hey, it looks like I totally agree with you! (^_^)
Never underestimate how much people get excited by refinement, by using things that just work.
Interface
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Interface"
I AGREE 100% - that's what people need to understand - the "revolution" from the iPhone is not about specs (it doesn't come close to my N95 in that respect) but the UI. Try switching to the Gallery on your S60 phone - what do you get, screen partly redrawn, some black some white, then the gallery finally appears - the same with other stuff (Nokia is trying to make it nicer with the multimedia menu of the N95)
From the demos of the iPhone it seems the interface will be much more "smooth".
I know this is all eye-candy, but eye-candy sells and improves the perception of the user experience - THAT is what is special about the iPhone, not much else (which is why I got the N95!!! - also the iphone won't be available here in Europa until the end of this year :-) ).
No, I agree with some of what you said and disagree with other points. My main point of contention is, "There is *NOTHING* revolutionary about the iPhone. At best, it's evolutionary, and only because of the touch interface."
I would argue that REVOLUTION is born of EVOLUTION and that the iPhone is without a doubt a revolutionary device. Why? Certainly not due to any features, apps, or functionality. The fact is that the iPhone's design and UI are amazing and they will be 100% responsible for *over time* changing what we see on and in mobile devices.
The reason that Nokia became the number one GSM manufacture, was the because of 3 reasons
1) way better user-interface then the competition
2) better look.
3) Reliability.
I'm a big Nokia fan but after 6310, I don't see any improvements in the Nokia phones. They are getting smarter but the extra functions are working mostly very clumsy.
I currently have a E61, web surfing is almost useless. email interface not really easy to use.
If you look up a tel. number from somebody, the tel. fonts are so small, you hardly can read it.
Go to you calendar during a phone call, is just very difficult, etc.
It seems like, the smarter the phone, the smarter you need to become to use it.
-What I have seen from the iPhone is just the opposite, each function implemented works brilliant and seems a no brainer to use.
-It looks fantastic.
-Is hopeful reliable (future will tell).
With my Nokia E61, I'm disappointed that it doesn't get the necessary firmware upgrade for all the bugs it has inside, instead they provide an improved E61i. Even when it does provide this update, I'm not sure how to do this (it will take a couple of forum visits to find out were to find it and how to do it).
I hope because of the iPhone competition, I hope Nokia will rethink there strategies because apple promises a 2 year free software upgrade policy.
I think I will become a Apple fan instead.
What makes the iPhone untouchable by other manufacturers not the hardware but the awesome software. Software that like the OSX puts the market leader M$'s to shame on laptops and stationeries puts S60 and WM to shame on phones.
The S60 platform might be "powerful" but what good does that do users when they actually use the phone and are presented with ugly, sluggish, buggy and unintuitive GUI and software on the phone?
Geeks might be impervious to bad UI design and general aesthetics but tech geeks are in a breed of their own. When they look at the iPhone and cannot see what differentiates it from other phones it speaks only of their ineptitude to see things as ordinary people do.
No, the iPhone does not have this hardware feature and that, but that is not what ordinary people care about. Ordinary people don't install all kinds of extra apps and stuff on their phones either, they don't care to.
They want a easy to use phone that just works out of the box and has everything you need. A phone that god forbid has a OS/GUI/software that is not designed by chimps and riddled with bugs because the manufacturer didn't care to test properly because he is too busy squeezing a dozen other phones out that quarter.
The point that I'm trying to make (and failing miserably, I believe) is that the iPhone really has all this buzz because of marketing. And when I say marketing, I'm not talking about online banner ads and internet contests that "illiterate nerds" like myself (apparently) would participate in.
I'm talking about traditional media. Perhaps I'm a bit jaded, but "normal" people aren't nearly as affected by online media as they are by seeing the iPhone ads on TV that show how simple it is to do things. You all point out it's the interface, yes, but even before that is the marketing that SHOWED the interface to you. And THAT'S where Nokia, in my opinion, has missed the ball.
I'll admit that a lot of what the phone does has been done before. And I certainly won't buy one. But it completely forgoes the traditional keyboard, which is brave. It may backfire on them, but it's brave. Lopping off the keyboard gives Apple a lot of extra space for a screen, which in turn allows for a higher resolution.
Go ahead and compare the mini-map feature of the S60 browser to the iPhone. Show that to the average person on the street, and they'll snigger at the mini-map, unless they're trying really hard to be polite.
What Nokia needs to do is take a chance. Deliver something revolutionary, not evolutionary. Fix the problems in S60 that users have been complaining about since forever. And when they do, for f's sake, put a decent battery in the thing.
And, in my opinion, the way to attack Apple is not from the high end... Apple will own that market. The N95 and it's ilk are going to be doomed by the iPhone, not because of any technical superiority, but because Apple owns that market segment. Nokia should do for smartphones what SanDisk did with MP3 players... attack the low end and move up. Own that low and middle end market, and the high end market will come along. Because, at least in the US, Nokia is starting from essentially zero.
However, I don't think that the iPhone and S60 are truly competitors, and I think that everyone who has commented thinks that I do. I have nothing against the iPhone. I merely compared it to the N91 above for the purpose of showing that MOSTLY, the devices are similar, in terms of features. Yes, the interface is different, but that's not going to appeal to everyone. I know several people who have absolutely zero desire for a touchscreen anything. Personally? I'd buy one just to play for a week or two.
The overall point I was attempting to make is that the iPhone opens up markets that Nokia and others have drooled over for years, but couldnt' seem to figure out how to get to them. The interface isn't even really relevant to this post. This post is saying, look, you have 2 devices that are incredibly similar in function, and form is in the eye of the beholder. So then what's the difference in the N91, or any S60 device in the US, and the iPhone?
I don't think Nokia or anyone else should try to compete with the iPhone, and I don't think they do. What I DO think (and know) is that there are people out there who like the IDEA of the iPhone, a device that has a full web browser and Google Maps and all, but they may hate Apples, and they may be totally turned off from a touch interface. THAT'S the market that Nokia and other high-end manufacturers are TOTALLY missing with the lack of marketing.
I don't think the iPhone is for everyone, and neither does Steve Jobs. That's why he only wants to sell a million. And that's why he setup an exclusive deal with ONE carrier out of 4. The point is, there are things that the iPhone does that appeal to people, but that UI and touch don't appeal to. All I'm saying is that this was a perfect opportunity for Nokia to say, "Look, we're here too. If you like the idea of browsing full web pages and using Google Maps easily and syncing your music and all these fun things, but want more than a 2MP cam, or want something smaller, or want a physical keypad, we've got something for you!" Currently, they're not saying ANYTHING. They're just pushing their 2610 and 6102i's into the bottom rung of Cingular's lineup and whispering, "Oh, yeah, freebies? We've got some, if you like them..."
THAT'S what I'm saying.
The bigger the screen, the higher the resolution, the better the browsing experience. The 320x240 screens that most S60 devices have aren't going to compete in that regard. Even the prehistoric (in terms of hardware/software) Treos have an arguably better browsing experience just because the form factor lends itself to it.
You mention browsing on the N800. To a degree, it's a bit more comfortable on the N800, but owning one, I can tell you that the touch interface, including the keyboard, quickly gets to the point where for certain tasks, I'd much prefer my N95 simply for the tactile buttons.
Also, the browser can have ALOT to do with your browsing experience, and let's not be too quick to forget that the iPhone's browser is based ALOT on the same thing that the S60 browser is.
I know the S60 browser and iPhone browser are derived from the KHTML toolkit (at least I'll credit the KDE guys, nobody else seems to). I also have a feeling that the iPhone won't skimp on usable RAM, and you probably won't see the iPhone browser close down due to 'out of memory' errors. This is a long standing Nokia weakness, and there's really no way to argue that or excuse it.
I agree with you 100% on the RAM on S60, you simply can't argue that. As I said above, there's some fundamental things that S60 and Nokia needs to improve upon, including RAM.
The iPhone isn't disruptive to the telecom industry on the whole. It isn't even a blip on the industry's radar. It's a marginal sidetrack for mobile handset providers. And while the interface is slick and will re-energize interest in PDAs, which have touch screens, as opposed to smartphones that don't. It will fill a niche and it will lead to some new evolutionary re-introductions of things like touch screens. Then again, my N800, paired with damn near any bluetooth phone has a touch screen.
Evolutionary. Mildly interesting, but ephemeral and not revolutionary in any way. I've said that since the day it was introduced. I won't be queeuing up to get another device to clutter the desk drawer two months after I bought it.
I'm sure it will do well. Then I expect some backlash. Just doesn't impress me a whole lot.
However, I am going to be one of those folks who will try to buy an iPhone on day 1. Why? Well, aside from working for a mobile developer, I have a need for a single device that does the things that the iPhone does, and does it with style. Will the iPhone meet that requirement? Time will tell.
That said, I think the N95 would be the perfect device with a larger screen, qwerty keyboard and a real browser. I'm expecting great things from Apple's Safari hype. If it does not deliver, then there is stilla wide open playing field for a robust mobile browser.
Finally, I would close with the fact that I received not one but TWO unrelated calls from within a large handset manufacturer the day iPhone was revealed - both saying "oh, shit."
Overhyped? Probably. Good for the industry? No question. Look at all the innovative stuff that's come out, or been announced in the past six months since the iPhone debut. I welcome Apple to the market. They will take their lumps just like everyone else, but there is no doubt in my mind that they will put some fire under the butts of those who think mobile operating systems are just fine the way they are.
Do every single post on the internet that has "iPhone" in it have to turn into a battlefield between the iPhone haters and the iPhone adopters? The device isn't already sold, have it in ur hands and then argue! We all know it will be great at what it does, because Apple always makes great products, we all know many people will buy it, we all know it may not come in as feature-packed as our symbian phones but will still be nice to hold, and we all know you're gonna have to spend 200$ worth of accessories to get it together, because you don't want it scratched, you don't want it to drop in the car, you want an FM transmitter, etc etc etc... POINT.
This iPhone hype is turning into a world war III and that is, in one way what Ricky is trying to point out here. Look what Apple did with this product, look at the marketing, look how we are all here arguing about the device even before its official launch, look at this. Do Nokia devices cause such a rush, such a public awareness, such contradictions? because contradictions ARE the reason of this iPhone hype, and Apple is rejoicing. Good for them. They are doing a great job. Now, let's wait for other companies to pick up these smart strategies and follow!
But they only have a single device... Only one Phone. Nokia owned 2002 the biggest market share. 35%. Now they got about 32% still double as the secound biggest contender motorola for 16% 17%.
We know the amount of phones they have, an for sure they cant do marketing for everyone, in the size of a Iphone marketing.
The Ipod has a market share of 82% among hard drive-based portable music players. So the name is well known among poeple... And theys marketing strategy was once again awesome. Because of the stylich player. The Iphone will upgrade the owners of a normal Ipod and Ipod nano. Because peaople that have a Ipod, don't care much if they Phone has an mp3 player or not. But know they have an Ipod with the Phone ability.. so let hit it...
And once again Apples interface is well known to be simple. AND the Iphone show us a styisch device with not keys at all, and this cool touchscreen functions such functions as zooming with to fingers.
Nokia can't focus in making a outstanding publicity for just every device they have. It would cost to much. The Iphone so has the N95 were hyped by the media. Apple dind't do that much... press conference...and media just jumped over it.... Just a statagie such as a marketing os a PS3 or a Xbox360
I think you're message is falling on deaf ears as well. I'm not sure who you are trying to convince here? Most of the people who buy this device will be Apple fanboys or people with deep pockets who will probably own an N95 as well.
John - the iPhone trap? This article has nothing to do with the iPhone. Reread it.
In terms of the features besides that, everything else is not new.
N95 vs Iphone , no contest n95 wins outright.
Apple as a company understands marketing. Most importantly, they know their target market. It is the swarm of ordinary people who doesn't know S60 from Volvo S60, and doesn't care to find out either. It is the people who just wants a latest fashionable cellphone they can carry, and perhaps catch the glance of other's, detecting faint trace of envy that will glorify their existence on this earth as demi-gods. It is this market that Jobs understand and caters to, exclusively. So who cares that some techno-savvy geeks knows the secret of the iPhone, and wants the world to know about it? World doesn't want to know. It never did. But then most of the cellphone companies don't, either.
Marketing of cellphones in places like Japan and S.Korea, and in large part of non-North American world, has been refined to the point, that it is it's own industry now. They research market, track their target demographic, search for that new market segment that will bring them new money. When they gauge the market, and receive feeback, they act on it. Fast. It is this marketing strategy that fuels continued existence of cellphone industry, as exciting and forward-thinking place. Where is this enthusiasm, if only feigned, with Nokia? Or Sony Ericsson? How many times do I see Nokia TV commercial, right after the reruns of Friends? Have I ever seen new and exciting N95, or SE K810i, on TV? No. And if it wasn't for that courageous Chinese businessman who had the adacity to sell unlocked phones in my area, I would never have known about them either.
Perhaps cellphone industry is still being propelled by that old standard, 'word of mouth' advertising. Well, people tire of talk, and 'show and tell,' and in most part just 'show,' is the only way to get your idea across these days. You don't show them, they don't know you. Or you product.
But who knows? Maybe iPhone will get tanked, and everything will get sucked into an iBlackhole, and the world as we know it, will cease to exist. Then we'll just have to use our N95 to call our friends and tell them all about it.
You make a great point...what ARE their marketing people doing? I was desperate for a Nokia clamshell several years ago but none were available.
The iPhone doesn't do it for me because I want to be able to open documents and use Sprint's faster network connection...but now, having seen the iPhone interface and touch-screen technology, I can't settle for the N95 either. I guess I'll just wait for the next generation...which I'm sure we Americans will have to diligently search online to discover, as no ad campaign is forthcoming.